Infect Teh Interwebs

PREMISE
Twensty years. The next twenty years may see several of a list of disruptive technologies emerge. In the next series of Red versus Blue events we’ll be doing these things and asking these questions –

  • what are these “disruptive technologies?”
  • what means ‘disruptive’ ? Should society prepare ?
  • what kind of ways exist to deal with the emergence of these ‘disruptive technologies’ ? Is society being apathetic, in denial, or cavalier about it?
  • assuming sonething must be done how can we marshal the current political establishment? Or do we want top?
  • A close look at some of these potentially ‘disruptive technologies’.

    Childhood is over guys πŸ™‚

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVxSk1MqO4&fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00]

    HATS

    Time/Date: Saturday 4 December November, 9:30 SLT, about 60-90 minutes.

    Location : Delinquent 213, 200, 742, SLURL

    IRC: http://webbased.quickfox.net/RedversusBlue

    Links


  • [09:28] Ivy Sunkiller: soooo
    [09:28] Ivy Sunkiller: what is the actual subject?
    [09:28] Ivy Sunkiller: I suppose not the hat fashion?
    [09:28] Ivy Sunkiller smiles
    [09:28] Khannea Suntzu: In the next 10-20 years, those years we all get to enjoy
    [09:29] Khannea Suntzu: There is a big chance there will come a set of technologies, and they will quickly mature
    [09:29] Khannea Suntzu: In the same manner internet itself did
    [09:29] Khannea Suntzu: and better still- become information based technologies (which allows very quick matket penetration)
    [09:30] Khannea Suntzu: These technologies may (or may not) rove to be societally disruptive
    [09:30] Khannea Suntzu: (as if we didnt have enough problems already)
    [09:30] Khannea Suntzu: First question is what such technologies and dangers there are
    [09:31] Khannea Suntzu: and the discussion is strictly pre-singularity for today
    [09:31] Friend Oliva: Hi guys
    [09:31] Khannea Suntzu: Hoi hoi
    [09:31] Ivy Sunkiller: hello Friend πŸ™‚
    [09:31] Khannea Suntzu: So the first ‘usual suspect’
    [09:32] Formatting Heliosense: social networking platforms, while atomically disruptive, bring larger groups of people together. seem a good spot to start
    [09:32] Eroyan Barmy is Offline
    [09:32] Khannea Suntzu: I open the floor – is nanotechnolgy a potential ‘society disrupting’ technology – and if it is do we need to akcnowledge different risk factors to it
    [09:32] Khannea Suntzu: This site seems to think it is
    [09:32] Ivy Sunkiller: social networking platforms are disruptive to begin with
    [09:32] Essence Jefferson is Offline
    [09:33] Ivy Sunkiller: because they are just that – platforms, instead of being, like the web, networks
    [09:33] Ivy Sunkiller smiles
    [09:33] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.crnano.org/
    [09:33] Khannea Suntzu: I will get to that in a sec
    [09:33] Formatting Heliosense: well, the grey goo debate sounds disruptive
    [09:33] Formatting Heliosense: but what are the possibilities of that happening?
    [09:33] Formatting Heliosense: i see nano as corrective more than disruptive
    [09:34] Khannea Suntzu: It is certainly potentially disruptive, but a bit cinematic for my tastes
    [09:34] Khannea Suntzu: I am more worried about things like product deflation, unemployment
    [09:34] Khannea Suntzu: toxitcity
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: runaway effects
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: terrorism
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: griefing
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: narcotics
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: weapons proliferation
    [09:35] Formatting Heliosense: we already have all of those things
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: IP infringement
    [09:35] Formatting Heliosense: it seems tech could be remedial
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: I am specifically talking nanotechnology πŸ™‚
    [09:35] Khannea Suntzu: I’d bloody hope so
    [09:35] Formatting Heliosense: rather than exasperative
    [09:36] Ivy Sunkiller: brb – going corporeal (or virtual-corporeal at least in 5)
    [09:38] Khannea Suntzu: Hmmm hmmm πŸ™‚
    [09:38] Khannea Suntzu: So feel free to argue peeps πŸ™‚
    [09:38] Khannea Suntzu: Is nanotech overblown?
    [09:38] Friend Oliva: Isn’t nanotech in its baby-shoes at the moment?
    [09:38] Khannea Suntzu: Yeps and we are talkking “the next 10-20 years”
    [09:38] Formatting Heliosense: those i’ve talked to in my research for art projects suggest things will begin to emerge more heavily around 2025
    [09:38] Friend Oliva: I think, it is hard to tell where it will hit
    [09:39] Friend Oliva: more power = more corruption
    [09:39] Friend Oliva: we have no saying at the moment
    [09:39] Khannea Suntzu: I agree Helio the big hitters look more plausible mid 2020
    [09:39] Friend Oliva: so, the establishment does what it wants
    [09:39] Khannea Suntzu: Is that so? More power also tends to mean more liberation and freedom so far
    [09:40] Formatting Heliosense: longevity, health, ecological responsibility, heightened sensibility
    [09:40] Friend Oliva: no…more slavery in our case
    [09:40] Khannea Suntzu: Interesting observation πŸ™‚
    [09:40] Khannea Suntzu: How about terrorism?
    [09:40] Ivy Sunkiller: you will never get rid of slavery
    [09:40] Khannea Suntzu: Hacking using nanotechnology?
    [09:40] Ivy Sunkiller: for one simple reason
    [09:41] Ivy Sunkiller: people *want* to be slaves
    [09:41] Friend Oliva: Terrorism -> government made
    [09:41] Ivy Sunkiller: not all, but quite a lot
    [09:41] Friend Oliva: Terrorism -> establishment made
    [09:41] Bogdan Ixtab: terrorism will be much easier, any madman will have much more power
    [09:41] Khannea Suntzu: I think rather Ivy, in 20+ years we wontt need all these humans. Machines will work cheaper and with less errors and without labor hassles.
    [09:41] Formatting Heliosense: nano will be a more complex “hack” i imagine
    [09:41] Ivy Sunkiller: we will still have slaves though
    [09:42] Ivy Sunkiller: be it bdsm slaves or workaholic slaves closed in office boxes πŸ™‚
    [09:42] Formatting Heliosense: undereducated cells will not have as much access
    [09:42] Friend Oliva: The economic system can not cope with automatisation
    [09:42] Khannea Suntzu: Worse than slaves, Ivy. Romans did ‘cull’ excess slaves ‘to keep the price of slaves up’
    [09:42] Ivy Sunkiller: only proves there was too many of them, they were just fighting inflation
    [09:42] Ivy Sunkiller chuckles
    [09:43] Khannea Suntzu: How would a critical excess of humans with absolutely no jobs work in our world, Ivy?
    [09:43] Friend Oliva: Nanotech is fine, if we understand how to use it and if we live in a free world, which we don’t
    [09:43] Formatting Heliosense: terrorists, with today’s technology, have proven to be imbeciles
    [09:43] Formatting Heliosense: for the most part
    [09:43] Formatting Heliosense: unfortunately, so have non-terrorists
    [09:43] Khannea Suntzu: I agree helio
    [09:43] Khannea Suntzu: This cant go right indefinitely
    [09:44] Archmage Atlantis: It would seem to me we will have the same issues humans always have, due to our conflicting internal natures…….unless the technology proves to be an evolutrionary force biologically, and not just socially
    [09:44] Formatting Heliosense: and their ability to navigate nanotech seems highly unlikely to me
    [09:44] Formatting Heliosense: they do not have the laboratory resources
    [09:44] Ivy Sunkiller: we are ruled by people who have near to no idea about technology, yet science what so ever
    [09:44] Formatting Heliosense: or IT support that would be needed. not now anyway
    [09:44] Ivy Sunkiller: not a suprrise since it’s true for most of the society anyway, and this is, after all, democracy
    [09:45] Khannea Suntzu: Then what is nanotechnology? Is 3D reprap/advanced prototyping a form of nanotechnology?
    [09:45] Friend Oliva: Nanotech = small machines
    [09:45] Formatting Heliosense: archmage, i agree. and i posit that nano could help the human species transcend in many ways
    [09:45] Khannea Suntzu: millimeters (3 orders of magnitude) micrometers (3 orders of magnitude) nanometers
    [09:45] Bogdan Ixtab: nanotech = things with scale of 1 nanometer
    [09:45] Formatting Heliosense: intelligence, sensuality, sensibility, health, etc.
    [09:46] Friend Oliva: At our present state…nanotech will kill us, I fear
    [09:46] Khannea Suntzu: Lot of orders of magnitude. We could have dozens of disparate industrial revolu6tions in the sub millimeter range
    [09:46] Friend Oliva: We are not responsible enough
    [09:46] Khannea Suntzu: Is laser lithography nanotechnology?
    [09:46] Formatting Heliosense: are my sperm nanotechnology?
    [09:46] Khannea Suntzu: Precisely
    [09:46] Friend Oliva: he, he
    [09:47] Bogdan Ixtab: yes helio
    [09:47] Angelo Miami is Online
    [09:47] Bogdan Ixtab: any DNA life form is nanotech
    [09:47] Khannea Suntzu: I’d have to sample at length and run thorough, deep diagnosutic to know mind you
    [09:47] Formatting Heliosense: are my sperm pre-programmed?
    [09:47] Ivy Sunkiller: nano yes, technology, no
    [09:47] Khannea Suntzu: All for science
    [09:47] Formatting Heliosense: are you sure Ivy?
    [09:47] Formatting Heliosense: what is technology?
    [09:47] Formatting Heliosense: is fire technology?
    [09:47] Formatting Heliosense: a stick?
    [09:47] Formatting Heliosense: a wheel?
    [09:47] Formatting Heliosense: wind?
    [09:48] Ivy Sunkiller: technology, in my book, is designed
    [09:48] Formatting Heliosense: it would seem it depends on its use
    [09:48] Ivy Sunkiller: sperm is not
    [09:48] Khannea Suntzu: Fires, Sticks, Wheels were all, at some point ‘arguably disruptive?
    [09:48] Khannea Suntzu: Sperm is also arguably disruptive – ten billion humans worth of disruptive.
    [09:48] Formatting Heliosense: disruptive, or corrective?
    [09:48] Archmage Atlantis: And we are on the road to desiner sperm and ovum
    [09:49] Formatting Heliosense: or both?
    [09:49] Khannea Suntzu: Invasive?
    [09:49] Formatting Heliosense: sort of where i’m going Archmage, definitely
    [09:49] Formatting Heliosense: and people
    [09:49] Ivy Sunkiller: if we design or genetically modify sperm, then that will be technology, yes
    [09:49] Khannea Suntzu: Damn if only Rhiannon were here to underscore my puns
    [09:50] Archmage Atlantis: πŸ™‚
    [09:50] Autumn Palen is Online
    [09:51] Khannea Suntzu: How big are the implications ot a comnpany that (with minimal risk and errors) can remove genetic flaws from unborn infants and guarantee a healthy blastocyst fertillization?
    [09:52] Khannea Suntzu: However – the treatment costs 5000 euro
    [09:52] Khannea Suntzu: I’d say that reducing genetic frailty – in the upper classes will be a self-reinforcing effect
    [09:52] Khannea Suntzu: It takes time to sink in
    [09:52] Khannea Suntzu: But in 30 years you’d be in a totally new world
    [09:53] Friend Oliva: I agree
    [09:53] Formatting Heliosense: hegemony is there, but the process would become global
    [09:53] Formatting Heliosense: just another part of giving birth
    [09:53] Khannea Suntzu: Not to say it makes sense to disallow it mind you
    [09:53] Formatting Heliosense: as we move forward
    [09:53] Khannea Suntzu: I’d rather have my upper classes smart if we have any at all
    [09:54] Khannea Suntzu: Let me give you another one
    [09:54] Formatting Heliosense: they already are more-so
    [09:54] Khannea Suntzu: What if
    [09:54] Formatting Heliosense: that will continue
    [09:54] Formatting Heliosense: and spread with these new technologies
    [09:54] Khannea Suntzu: virtual reality like SL were easy to use, runs on mobile phones, very low on errors, it costs 2 euro to run a sim, and there is no such think as Linden Lab – and the sims are kilometers big
    [09:55] Khannea Suntzu: Would it then catch on?
    [09:55] Khannea Suntzu: And if so, to what degree
    [09:55] Khannea Suntzu: Would VRlike that be ‘disruptive’ ?
    [09:55] Archmage Atlantis: Having a self-reproducing upper class is not a foregone conclusion,,,,
    [09:55] Archmage Atlantis: The outcome may be new social revolutions
    [09:55] Khannea Suntzu: Why not Atlantis?
    [09:55] Formatting Heliosense: it would augment life seriously – and it inevitably will
    [09:56] Formatting Heliosense: we are the test run haha
    [09:56] Khannea Suntzu: Yes
    [09:56] Khannea Suntzu: We are still in quiet waters
    [09:56] Khannea Suntzu: Internet was a bit choppy
    [09:56] Archmage Atlantis: Remember what happened to the French Upper classes in the multiple revoloutions there
    [09:56] Ivy Sunkiller: I don’t see how they would be any more disruptive than the web already is
    [09:56] Ivy Sunkiller: sure you will get wikileaks once in a while
    [09:57] Khannea Suntzu: But I can clearly hear the roar of the rapids ahead πŸ™‚
    [09:57] Ivy Sunkiller: but that I think is more positive than negative
    [09:57] Khannea Suntzu: I think Ivy, the net was just easy compared to whats to come
    [09:57] Formatting Heliosense: Ivy, with immersive “web-based” platforms the experience can become more complete – and as a result the organic world less dominant
    [09:57] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.crnano.org/dangers.htm
    [09:58] Formatting Heliosense: VR could leave to a mass exodus of our bodies altogether
    [09:58] Ivy Sunkiller: I’m *NOT* talking about web based
    [09:58] Khannea Suntzu: “Disruption of the basis of economy is a strong possibility.”
    [09:58] Ivy Sunkiller: rather using similar architecture to the web
    [09:58] Khannea Suntzu: “Major investment firms are conscious of potential economic impact.”
    [09:58] Formatting Heliosense: what are you talking about Ivy?
    [09:58] Khannea Suntzu: “Nano-built products may be vastly overpriced relative to their cost, perpetuating unnecessary poverty.”
    [09:58] Formatting Heliosense: like what Ivy?
    [09:58] Bogdan Ixtab: a completely immersive VR is still far ahead – need to decode the neural code to connect directly with the brain before we have that
    [09:59] Ivy Sunkiller: as in – standalone sims run by private people and companies (like http servers) with avatars walking on them fetched from e-mail alike services (g-mail -> g-avatar)
    [09:59] Formatting Heliosense: how is that not web based Ivy?
    [09:59] Ivy Sunkiller: web based, by definition, is run in web browser
    [09:59] Ivy Sunkiller: no http, no web
    [10:00] Perpetuus Orellana: Did you guys know they have actually isolated the gene that controls aging, and they are working on shutting it off?
    [10:00] Ivy Sunkiller: simple as that
    [10:00] Khannea Suntzu: I think there is a big space between robost disruptive optical VR and neural link VR
    [10:00] Formatting Heliosense: i guess i’m not understanding how your above description differs
    [10:00] Perpetuus Orellana: And then, who do you think will be able to afford it?
    [10:00] Xstreet SL Magic Box v3.0.11 owned by Perfect Wirefly gave you ‘hat 5.0’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ramla%20Bay/44/213/21 ).
    [10:00] Ivy Sunkiller: everybody?
    [10:00] Ivy Sunkiller: my http server is way cheaper than a parcel I rent in SL
    [10:00] Ivy Sunkiller: on per year basis
    [10:00] Ivy Sunkiller: tyvm
    [10:00] Ivy Sunkiller: πŸ™‚
    [10:01] Formatting Heliosense: SL is http based
    [10:01] Formatting Heliosense: we are in a form of web browser now
    [10:01] Ivy Sunkiller: parts of it
    [10:01] Ivy Sunkiller: SL is far from what I’m talking about
    [10:01] Ivy Sunkiller: SL is centralized
    [10:01] Formatting Heliosense: well, since i’m not understanding what you are talking about at all we should save this for a less publicly disruptive talk heh
    [10:02] Archmage Atlantis: got to go, rl, tks later πŸ™‚
    [10:02] Ivy Sunkiller: I promise I’ll write a blog post about it
    [10:02] Ivy Sunkiller: with graphs explaining everything
    [10:02] Formatting Heliosense: ツ
    [10:02] Formatting Heliosense: i do well with graphs
    [10:02] Ivy Sunkiller: the idea is easy to grasp, just needs proper presentation
    [10:02] Ivy Sunkiller: πŸ™‚
    [10:03] Formatting Heliosense: VR is developing in increments
    [10:03] Ivy Sunkiller: SL is πŸ™‚
    [10:03] Formatting Heliosense: goggles are now out that allow you to project worlds closer to the eye
    [10:03] Formatting Heliosense: more immersive
    [10:03] Formatting Heliosense: next it will be contact lenses
    [10:03] Formatting Heliosense: both VR / augmented reality based
    [10:03] Khannea Suntzu: Jamais Cascio wrote the definitive article on VR >>
    [10:04] Formatting Heliosense: those steps are on the way to the neural connections we yearn for…
    [10:04] Khannea Suntzu: http://metaverseroadmap.org/
    [10:04] Perpetuus Orellana: You mean brain implanted VR?
    [10:04] Khannea Suntzu: I think brain implanted VR is more than 20 years away
    [10:05] Perpetuus Orellana: I wouldn’t bet on it
    [10:05] Formatting Heliosense: i mean something like CAPRICA featured on their recent series, have you all seen that?
    [10:05] Khannea Suntzu: I think optical VR will be disruptive enough
    [10:05] Ivy Sunkiller: sadly not πŸ™
    [10:05] Bogdan Ixtab: A disruptive tech that’s very near to emerge is self-driving cars; In the next decade we;ll have the first commercial products, and in 20 I think manual driving will be banned on roads with hevay traffic
    [10:05] Khannea Suntzu: I glimpsed it in the corner of my eyes
    [10:06] Perpetuus Orellana: Well, the whole “singularity” where technology completely merges with humanity is projected to happen in roughly 20 years, but you know how those projections can go
    [10:06] Ivy Sunkiller: can be anything between 10 to 1000
    [10:07] Ivy Sunkiller: though 1000 I find highly unprobable, unless we get some sort of technology wipe on the way
    [10:07] Ivy Sunkiller smiles
    [10:07] Khannea Suntzu: I intentionally prefer to leave the singularity out of *this* discussion since we cant say much about it
    [10:07] Perpetuus Orellana: lol
    [10:07] Perpetuus Orellana: Okay cool
    [10:09] Formatting Heliosense: need to run
    [10:09] Ivy Sunkiller: see ya Formatting
    [10:09] Formatting Heliosense: nice to talk with everyone
    [10:09] Khannea Suntzu: Grab a hat
    [10:09] Formatting Heliosense: ttfn ivy
    [10:09] Perpetuus Orellana: Is there a signifigance associated with the color we’re seated on?
    [10:09] Perpetuus Orellana: I’m sorry this is my first time here.
    [10:10] Formatting Heliosense: i tried to be optimistic today ツ
    [10:10] Formatting Heliosense: mr. yellow
    [10:10] Formatting Heliosense: later
    [10:10] Khannea Suntzu: :))
    [10:10] Autopilot canceled
    [10:10] Ivy Sunkiller: back on disruptive thing
    [10:11] Ivy Sunkiller: I think whatever new technology comes up, our goverments will find a way to call them disruptive (for them at least)
    [10:12] Khannea Suntzu: So will life extension be p;otentially a disruption in the next 10-20 years? Mind you, only a statitical effect of people *suddenly* becoming on average 3 months older will send pension funds spiralling into insolbvency.
    [10:12] Ivy Sunkiller: oh life extension they should love
    [10:12] Khannea Suntzu: How about an average of 5 years? Silver bullets might be plausible in making people go grow ‘a little bit’ older>?
    [10:12] Ivy Sunkiller: less people going to retirement – more money to rob!
    [10:13] Khannea Suntzu: Yes
    [10:13] Perpetuus Orellana: You’re making the mistake of thinkng that everyone will be able to afford it
    [10:13] Bogdan Ixtab: hmm…really disruptive event will be when a significant proportion of “average joe
    [10:13] Perpetuus Orellana: The people that will be able to afford it are the rich.
    [10:13] Bogdan Ixtab: will realize radical life extension is possible
    [10:13] Perpetuus Orellana: And then they will have the intelligence and the influence ot keep it out of the hands of the masses
    [10:13] Khannea Suntzu: Can a guy with a body that looks not a day over 20, aged 85 make a fair claim to his pension? And if no legally why not?
    [10:13] Perpetuus Orellana: and then they will become immortal technology barons
    [10:14] Perpetuus Orellana: And THAT is very disruptive
    [10:14] Ivy Sunkiller: I guess they were saying the same about medical healthcare in hospitals 300 years ago
    [10:14] Ivy Sunkiller: yet it’s normal thing nowadays
    [10:14] Khannea Suntzu: Precisely
    [10:14] Perpetuus Orellana: Healthcare in hospitals doesn’t give you continuity of diabolical vision and purpose over time
    [10:14] Ivy Sunkiller: are we talking about affordability or not?
    [10:15] Perpetuus Orellana: Yes affordability
    [10:15] Ivy Sunkiller: then that argument doesn’t really make sense πŸ™‚
    [10:15] Perpetuus Orellana: When immortality is synthesized, then the rich will know about it first
    [10:15] Bogdan Ixtab: to become affordable, it has to be mass produced somhow
    [10:15] Perpetuus Orellana: and they will be the only ones to afford it
    [10:15] Khannea Suntzu: No two things – societal disparities (elites) and affordability (in terms of insolbvency, not enough people working, outsourcing, slave labor etc. etc. )
    [10:15] Ivy Sunkiller: anti-aging isn’t immortality
    [10:15] Perpetuus Orellana: and they wil also have been the ones that funded the technology
    [10:16] Perpetuus Orellana: And, because money is truly power, they will have the ability to keep it out of the hands of other people
    [10:16] Perpetuus Orellana: So, because, at the start, it is not affordable, it will then be made unavailable altogether
    [10:16] Ivy Sunkiller: yes, I’ve gone through the theraphy, now I’ll live forever! *SPLASH!* *Truck drives by leaving red marks on the road*
    [10:16] Khannea Suntzu: If life extension catches on and gives us in the western world 20 years extra – what will then be invented in new treatmnents in those consequitive 20 years? *some* People born before 1950s might still be alive by 2500
    [10:16] Perpetuus Orellana: LOL yeah ther’es that too
    [10:17] Khannea Suntzu: Not many mind you
    [10:17] Perpetuus Orellana: They have actually isolated the gene that controls aging
    [10:17] Khannea Suntzu: Its pure statistics at some point. Accidents will happen.
    [10:18] Ivy Sunkiller: longevity is good for our economies, it means more people able to work compared to how many people are on retirement, if nothing changes our governments will do *everything* to make it affordable once it’s here
    [10:18] Khannea Suntzu: I talk with Aubrey de Grey and he says this is not wholly true Orellana
    [10:18] Perpetuus Orellana: oh really?
    [10:18] Khannea Suntzu: It isn’t a single gene
    [10:18] Perpetuus Orellana: oh :O
    [10:18] Bogdan Ixtab: the economy of a world with nearly immortal people will be radically different than ours
    [10:19] Khannea Suntzu: Good or Bad?
    [10:19] Bogdan Ixtab: the transition can be painful
    [10:19] Perpetuus Orellana: May I ask who Aubry de Grey is?
    [10:19] Ivy Sunkiller: really, not immortal πŸ™‚
    [10:19] Perpetuus Orellana: nvm, just found him
    [10:19] Ivy Sunkiller: but yes, it will be different
    [10:19] Khannea Suntzu: O some guy with a > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_grey”>bird >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_grey
    [10:19] Ivy Sunkiller: very very little children
    [10:19] Perpetuus Orellana: LOL
    [10:19] Khannea Suntzu: beard
    [10:19] Perpetuus Orellana: yeah i found him lol
    [10:20] Perpetuus Orellana: reading that page now
    [10:20] Ivy Sunkiller: I think Kim can confirm he does in fact have a bird
    [10:20] Ivy Sunkiller grins wide
    [10:20] Khannea Suntzu: I find myself strangely ahm close with him off late
    [10:20] Perpetuus Orellana: So what you’re saying is that it’s going to take longer than they thought then
    [10:20] Bogdan Ixtab: one big differene is that economy of the future will no longer be based on employment
    [10:20] Khannea Suntzu: Its an albatros
    [10:20] Ivy Sunkiller: good point
    [10:21] Khannea Suntzu: Hmmmm employment
    [10:21] Khannea Suntzu: My usual fetish topic
    [10:21] Ivy Sunkiller: but if it won’t, we go back to technology
    [10:21] Bogdan Ixtab: jobless recovery, sounds familiar?
    [10:21] Ivy Sunkiller: as nothing else can substitute work πŸ™‚
    [10:21] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm
    [10:21] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm
    [10:21] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
    [10:22] Khannea Suntzu: http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/
    [10:22] Khannea Suntzu: The problem is income
    [10:22] Ivy Sunkiller: no
    [10:23] Khannea Suntzu: No jobs? Then voters will vote for taxing those who generate value
    [10:23] Ivy Sunkiller: the problem is dristribution of wealth
    [10:23] Khannea Suntzu: Precisly
    [10:23] Bogdan Ixtab: yes
    [10:23] Khannea Suntzu: Unemployment means either civil untrest and guillotines – or taxes
    [10:23] Khannea Suntzu: Generally both
    [10:23] Bogdan Ixtab: I prefer taxes πŸ™‚
    [10:24] Ivy Sunkiller: I’ve had been unemployment
    [10:24] Khannea Suntzu: Riots, cops, taxes, bureaucrats. unions, strikes and welfare
    [10:24] Ivy Sunkiller: and I’ll risk saying it was the best time of my life
    [10:24] Khannea Suntzu: Prisons
    [10:24] Ivy Sunkiller: but that’s because I had money πŸ™‚
    [10:24] Perpetuus Orellana: lolol
    [10:25] Ivy Sunkiller: gawd, I’ve read “unions” as “unicorns”
    [10:25] Ivy Sunkiller: there is something wrong with my brain
    [10:25] Khannea Suntzu: So what do we have – nanotechnology. Robots. Internets,m Vitual reality? Augmnented Reality? Life extension. Biotechnology.
    [10:26] Ivy Sunkiller: anyway, welfare seems to have negative value nowadays
    [10:26] Ivy Sunkiller: with enough technology, I think it should be not only positive, it should be the goal of our civilisation
    [10:26] Ivy Sunkiller: to let *everybody* live on welfare
    [10:26] Khannea Suntzu: Risks are income disparity, griefing, terrorism, narcotics, addiction, rapid ifestyle changes… what else?
    [10:26] Perpetuus Orellana: Umm, don’t forget space technology
    [10:26] Perpetuus Orellana: Satellites and such
    [10:26] Khannea Suntzu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee
    [10:26] Bogdan Ixtab: immediate future: omnipresent sensors, non stop surveillance, self driving cars
    [10:27] Khannea Suntzu: Yes space
    [10:27] Khannea Suntzu: Can certainly wreck earth economies – but how? Space Energy? New products?
    [10:27] Perpetuus Orellana: self driving cards good, omnipresent sensors bad lol
    [10:27] Perpetuus Orellana: cars
    [10:28] Khannea Suntzu: How about oursourcing taxi drivers to Ghana? By means of renote operation? If the US army can bomb afghans with these things this technology can sure get all taxi drivers fired real soon.
    [10:28] Khannea Suntzu: Sure it would only be for 10-15 years
    [10:29] Khannea Suntzu: But outsourcing saves us all money
    [10:29] Ivy Sunkiller: in pre-singularity high-technology era
    [10:29] Khannea Suntzu: and iot makes third world people richer
    [10:29] Bogdan Ixtab: yeah, and even more outsourcing
    [10:29] Ivy Sunkiller: the only “real” jobs that are kind of guaranteed
    [10:29] Ivy Sunkiller: are *in* technology
    [10:29] Ivy Sunkiller: everyone else has a problem
    [10:29] Khannea Suntzu: ar tists. management. science. engineering. some education.
    [10:30] Khannea Suntzu: Did I miss out any?
    [10:30] Bogdan Ixtab: ok, have to go now, it was a very interesting conversation
    [10:30] Friend Oliva: Docs
    [10:31] Khannea Suntzu: Ok then, tonorrow I will focus on what exactly means ‘societal disruption’? Corpses on the street? Angry mobs? The DOW Jones tanking? Gnashing of teeth? The young people of the world runnig around naked and fornicated with cats and dogs?
    [10:32] Khannea Suntzu: If you can attend do try πŸ™‚
    [10:32] Khannea Suntzu: Any questions?
    [10:32] Friend Oliva: Thanks Khannea…thanks to you all
    [10:32] Khannea Suntzu: Thank you too
    [10:32] Friend Oliva: You all have a good time